A friend of mine (who has recently started reading JWN) is having trouble eating and sleeping because, even after having recently woken up to TTATT.. they are still concerned about 'demons, everlasting destruction, and Jehovahs disapproval'.
I've tried to encourage them.
I'm sure you all understand that these things can take time, the transition period is often painful, to some extent. I'm still struggling with anger and depression myself.
I'll be away from JWN, off the internet, and thus out of contact with them for a while (don't ask why)... so please don't expect me to reply to or even look at what you post,
but my friend will be watching the thread even if they don't decide to post.
HERE IS MY REQUEST:
Can you share either a thread or personal experience that proved to you that the Bible wasn't inspired (contradictions, errors, failed prophesies etc) and that the bible God Jehovah and the demons don't exist, logically?
I know it's not a subject of great interest to many of us atheists perhaps, but you could be helping someone through a very difficult time.
Any experiences of how you got through such hard times when you learned TTATT would be appreciated too.. No sarcasm or evangelists, please.
I've got to go now..
Thank you.
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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23
HELP needed for a friend, please. Anyone?..
by defender of truth ina friend of mine (who has recently started reading jwn) is having trouble eating and sleeping because, even after having recently woken up to ttatt.. they are still concerned about 'demons, everlasting destruction, and jehovahs disapproval'.. i've tried to encourage them.
i'm sure you all understand that these things can take time, the transition period is often painful, to some extent.
i'm still struggling with anger and depression myself.. i'll be away from jwn, off the internet, and thus out of contact with them for a while (don't ask why)... so please don't expect me to reply to or even look at what you post, .
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defender of truth
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Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents
by Fe2O3Girl inhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28978655.
a five-year-old boy with a brain tumour has been taken without consent from hospital by his parents, sparking a major police hunt for the family.. ashya king was taken from southampton general hospital and is now believed to be in france with his parents and six siblings.. police said he needs constant medical care and there are "serious concerns" for his life if he is not found today.. brett king, 51, and naghemeh king, 45 removed him from the ward on thursday.. ashya's father was pictured taking him from the hospital"everyone is sending their love now.
we love you so much and we want to see you very soon and i love you so much and can't wait to see you.".
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defender of truth
Julian Wooster, Portsmouth City Council's director for children's services, said: "At the request of Southampton Hospital the council obtained a temporary wardship order on Friday, only to direct that Ashya King be presented for medical treatment"
The BBC's legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said wardship means major decisions relating to the child must be approved by the court.
The order relating to Ashya will be reviewed on Wednesday."
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Nick Triggle, BBC Health Correspondent
"It is perfectly possible to challenge medical advice...
If the person with parental responsibility refuses treatment and doctors believe that decision could lead to death or severe permanent injury an application can be made to the court of protection to overrule them.
When it comes to wanting treatment that is not being offered, it is less clear cut.
Patients do not have an automatic right to a second opinion although most hospitals will give them one.
Many also have ethical committees - or similar groups - that will consider individual cases when treatment options are disputed. Beyond that patients can - and have in the past - applied for a judicial review."
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-england-29009883 -
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The Deepak Chopra Random Quote Generator
by cofty inthis computer program generates random quotes that sound just like actual chopra woo woo.... what gem do you get to guide you through life today?.
i got .... "death fascinates the progressive expansion of excellence"something to think about!.
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defender of truth
'Your heart relies on objective success'
http://www.wisdomofchopra.com
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"Son, when you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or lose, its how drunk you get."
- Homer Simpson
http://smacie.com/randomizer/simpsons/homer.html?x=1&y=1
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"Create a vision and never let the environment, other people's beliefs, or the limits of what has been done in the past shape your decisions. Ignore conventional wisdom."
- Anthony Robbins
http://ivyjoy.com/quote.shtml -
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The Bible Teach book illustration about the child having to be put through a painful operation
by defender of truth inhad you going there for a minute ;).
now you're here... there are several problems with that illustration, as i see it.. ..... 1) god is the one who inflicted the life threatening ailment that requires an operation.
(he supposedly decided what sin would be defined as, then once adam 'sinned', he cursed all of adams descendants to sin, grow old and die.).
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defender of truth
This paragraph, from the Draw Close to Jehovah book, is being studied this week. Please read the OP for a refutation of the logic of this reasoning.
*** cl chap. 12 p. 123 par. 11 “Is There Injustice With God?” ***
11 Jehovah knew from the beginning that mankind’s independence, or self-rule, would result in much suffering. Was it unjust of him, then, to allow the inevitable to run its course? Not at all! To illustrate: Suppose you have a child who needs surgery to cure a life-threatening ailment. You realize that the operation will cause your child a degree of suffering, and this deeply grieves you. At the same time, you know that the procedure will enable your child to enjoy better health later in life. Similarly, God knew—and even foretold—that his allowance of human rule would bring along with it a measure of pain and suffering. (Genesis 3:16-19) But he also knew that lasting and meaningful relief would be possible only if he allowed all mankind to see the bad fruitage produced by rebellion. In this way the issue could be settled permanently, for all eternity. -
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Your views and ideas on forum areas and organization?
by Simon inthis may come as a shock to some people, but the current forum structure was kind of thrown together without much real thought and then evolved a bit over time.
there are a few things that particularly grate on me and areas where i don't think the subjects work particularly well.
'friends' is a bit vague and becomes a dumping ground, news & world events vs politics & current affairs is hard to decide sometimes, child abuse is a scandal but isn't contained withing 'scandals & coverups' etc.... with a new forum platform imminent, it's a good time to solicit ideas to improve things.
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defender of truth
Terry: "I know it sounds addle-brained, but there ya go!"
Not at all.
I agree, obviously.
You'd have to be addle-brained to not see the connection. ;) -
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Veneration of the jw.org logo is as the cross is to Catholics
by EndofMysteries injw.org pins, on the kh's, etc, how soon before they are making jw.org altar pieces, necklaces, etc to hold and pray with?
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defender of truth
Interesting views here from JW's..
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/14611-lapel-pins-or-tie-tacs-with-jworg/#entry238253 -
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Your views and ideas on forum areas and organization?
by Simon inthis may come as a shock to some people, but the current forum structure was kind of thrown together without much real thought and then evolved a bit over time.
there are a few things that particularly grate on me and areas where i don't think the subjects work particularly well.
'friends' is a bit vague and becomes a dumping ground, news & world events vs politics & current affairs is hard to decide sometimes, child abuse is a scandal but isn't contained withing 'scandals & coverups' etc.... with a new forum platform imminent, it's a good time to solicit ideas to improve things.
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defender of truth
"LOL, I have thought for a while that there should be a 'Christian only' section, so those poor persecuted souls can converse in peace"
I agree.
After that, maybe we could make a 'JW only' section, where those poor persecuted souls can converse in peace. All apostate views would not be allowed, and anyone who posted a viewpoint or fact that disturbed the peaceful 'unity of thought' would be banned.
In order to gain access to the page, a prospective member of the 'JW' section would have to swear on the New World Translation that any views that contradict the JW understanding of reality and Gods Word would remain private, and not be discussed.
A moderator (preferably one with plenty of experience in attempting to quell criticism of religious beliefs) would be appointed to ensure that any 'apostate' comments, from those who dared to sneak in and try to introduce an independent thought or opposing viewpoint, would be promptly deleted.
I am sure that Witnesses would be thankful to the Governing Bod.. oops I meant Simon, for this loving provision to remain seperate from the 'world'.
.... It'd be so funny if Simon came in now and said "hey, a Christian only forum, that sounds like a great idea". Talk about having egg on your face ;)
(p.s. Please don't think I am mocking you or having a go at you. I'm honestly not. You seem like a very nice person. I just have a direct style of talking when I'm trying to make someone think. Hope you are not offended..) -
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Please help....in a dilemma..
by crazyhorse inplease help with this: when i was in college, there was a lot of talk about university and how all who pursue that are wasting their time and all that.
even before going to uni, there was a lot of pressurr on me concerning my decision.
during that time, two elders sat with me for appointment as ms and asked me if i have freedom of speech in the org since i'm going to uni and i said no.
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defender of truth
Lol at Rebel8's post :)
crazyhorse:"But I have made the decision to decline. Its going to be very hard."
Well done. I'm not sure that I'd have the guts to say no.
I'd recommend planning what you are going to say and then stick to it, firmly repeating (for example) 'no thank you, I cannot cope with this at the moment for xxxxx reason'. Perhaps share it with us and have a practice. Or not.
Oh, and stop being so darn responsible.
From now on, this is how you should look when the COBOE asks you where you left the keys to the Kingdom Hall..
http://actioncoachstevegoranson.com/files/2011/04/Monkey-Question.jpg -
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A question for Athiests.
by new hope and happiness ini am now an athiest myself, but i think being an athiest its a bit like having a faith.
some get very hooked on it and "preash" others (like me) simply get with with there lifes.
i am sure that some athiests like to have discussions about the non existence of " god" in a similar way that "thisists" do about the existence of god.
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defender of truth
"has not yet been tested or proved to be correct"
.. Notice the word yet, which implies that it will be tested in the future and will be either proven or disproven.
A hypothesis (a scientific one that isn't a mere guess anyway), as Viviane told you, needs to be verifiable, meaning it is a theory that is possible to prove correct, by testing and recording the results.
Seeing as nobody has come back from the dead to tell us that all is well, and that there is an afterlife
where they watched Buddha shoot some pool with Jesus, after sharing a bottle of whiskey with Allah and Zeus (Who won? Jesus didn't have a prayer..), there is no way to carry out and record the results of a test in order to prove or disprove your theory. Once we're dead, we can't tell anyone anything.
Unless you can propose a way to carry out a scientific test of your speculation, it's speculation. (see number 4: a guess) ;)
1. a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
...4. a mere assumption or guess."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypothesis -
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A question for Athiests.
by new hope and happiness ini am now an athiest myself, but i think being an athiest its a bit like having a faith.
some get very hooked on it and "preash" others (like me) simply get with with there lifes.
i am sure that some athiests like to have discussions about the non existence of " god" in a similar way that "thisists" do about the existence of god.
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defender of truth
OP: "But seriously even an atheist...[nonsense]
...so why can't i still believe in an after life?"
If you don't have a belief in a God, you are an atheist.
Beyond that, atheists believe whatever they like.
The definition of atheist stops at disbelief in God. Okey-dokey?
